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Flooring Design Dilemma Kitchens

Underfloor heating dilemma

14 days ago

We are renovating our kitchen dining area, so new floor, kitchen etc. Wondering whether we should do UFH while we are at it.

Is underfloor heating worth it?

Kitchen has got suspended floor while dining has concrete floor.

One company wants to fill up void under suspended floor with rubble, then insultation and screed and then ufh boards. He also wants to shave off about 150-200mm off the adjacent concrete floor in dining area and then insulate etc to bring it to level with kitchen. This seems to be a huge overhaul and expensive

Other couple of companies just want to remove existing floor, lay some low profile 20mm mats with grooves for pipes in both kitchen and dining area, ready for engineered wood. No screed or anything. They say the grooved mat itself doubles up as the insulation also. This seems too simple and makes me wonder if it will be efficient.

What was the process for your UFH and how is it working so far? Please Share. Thank you.

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Comments (5)

PRO
Woodfloors4u
14 days ago
Making UFH choices can certainly be difficult as there a number of different products on the market, as you've found with differing views on install methods.

I would go with a tried and tested method that the company or persons you choose have fitted on a number of occasions, backed up with evidence so you are confident the system will work for your property. Also consider a monitor for the UFH like a Fid Box and think about the overall build-up height with your chosen flooring prior to works to ensure no issues with door openings etc.

For flooring above the UFH system I would consider engineered wood, *note solid wood cannot be used for floors with UFH systems*.

At Woodfloors4u we stock a huge range of engineered wood and vinyl flooring products that are all compatible with UFH, we also stock compatible adhesives for UFH.

When you are ready to discuss flooring options please feel free to get in touch with the sales team on 020 8500 1940 or visit our website www.woodfloors4u.co.uk.

Example images of Wood & Vinyl SPC floors fitted in customer's kitchens.

https://www.woodfloors4u.co.uk/product/parquet-dark-active-grey-oak-brushed-oiled-flooring-150-x-4-18-x-600mm/

https://www.woodfloors4u.co.uk/product/rigid-core-spc-light-active-grey-herringbone/

https://www.woodfloors4u.co.uk/product/ditorian-vintage-oak-distressed-hard-wax-oiled-wood-flooring-190-x-3-14-x-1900mm/

https://www.woodfloors4u.co.uk/product/versailles-panels-windsor-aged-oak-brushed-oiled-600-x-4-18-x-600mm/
A V thanked Woodfloors4u
Sonia
14 days ago
I’m no expert but it seems too much of a faff to do all that just for UFH. I’m not sure about filling the void either, I thought the void was there to increase ventilation? Seems an awful lot of work.
A V thanked Sonia
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Hi Ben, You have a few issues here and I would be surprised if your building control officer hasn't raised them already. The underfloor heating company and your builder also have a duty of care to inform you that what you are embarking on here needs some professional help. I will do my best to help you with the above issue, but it does worry me about what is going on in the rest of the house! You will need both a Celotex AND a Trisol Sol type foil backed insulation. The Celotex PIR insulation is required for your thermal envelope. You should be aiming to achieve a minimum U-value of 25 W/(m2.K)8 - as per Bart L1B of the building Regulations. But (and this is my disclaimer) without knowing what is going on in the rest of the building this may possibly be a much higher requirement (a lower U-value is a higher number). So use this as a guide only and you should call up Celotex instead of just using the online calculators, they can explain what and why you need the thicknesses you need. Don't forget that underneath the insulation you will also need a DPM - the whole floor construction needs to be considered as a system - Celotex can help you with this to a point as their calculations will give you the required minimum buildup (but this buildup still needs checking off by building control to ensure that for example if you are in a RADON gas area that the inside of your property will be a healthy and safe place to inhabit). If you are following drawings by someone - just a note that they sound a little incomplete if you feel that you can choose either insulation. Once you have a safe and secure thermal envelope which might entail screed or WBP ply on top of the PIR insulation as part of that, then you can consider the underfloor heating requirements, which will go on top and usually require something like a Trisol Sol as part of their own build up system so that the heat reflects into the building rather than into the ground outside (saving you money and lots of energy). The number provided by Trisol Sol are 01249 462 888. In Europe, they often build buildings by insulating on the outside of the slab, so if the slab is insulated on the outside already, you may be able to get away with just using the Trisol Sol - but there are so many variables here that I'll over complicate my answer to you if I list them here, so finding out if the slab is insulated below will affect your thermal envelope calculation. Underfloor heating can be simple or it can be complex (not much help for you sorry). You will need to (at a minimum and if you haven't got a pro helping you) to call the underfloor heating company and see what their buildup requirements are and whether what you have below is compatible with their system. This could take you a few minutes on the phone or a few days depending on how good the technical department is. Then you will need to ensure that your thermal build-up and your heating buildup are compatible and then you start looking around to see if the overall buildup (possibly around 200mm at this point) will be giving you a large step or a level enough threshold into the room you have designed to be viable. If the step is unacceptable and or your head-height is restricted by what you have created, you have to go back to your metaphoric drawing board and see where you can change the build-up. Kingspan do a product that is vacuum sealed. It is super expensive, but will lower the head-height if you are really desperate - but you will need to work out your thermal buildup again using the Kingspan system and then check again with the underfloor heating manufacturer whether these two systems are compatible (a couple more phone calls). You may have to consider a much thinner underfloor heating system too, which again will start to get more expensive and then may not reach your required heating load (Building Regulations for heating and ventilating the room etc. etc.). Building control are really great (in my experience) and as a minimum I would give them a call and tell them what you are doing and ask for some help. What you are creating needs to be safe (and practical) not only for you but for the future users of the building and then signed off when complete or else you may have difficulty selling your building afterwards. I hope I gave you some guidance to start in the right direction, but you have a few days of work ahead of you! Good luck. Jo
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rinked
14 days ago
last modified: 14 days ago
UFH aside, if either floor isn't insulated at the moment, i would consider shaving some concrete off (dining) and replace the wood with steel/reinforced boards (kitchen*), to enable insulating both and thereby make them level. You can calculate the investment return with a heating bill reduction of roughly 15%.

(* whether or not the void needs to be filled depends on its height. For example; before our extension we dug away the old concrete slab shed foundation and placed 25cm hard polystyrene within the new foundation rim, before pouring new concrete floors. Our living room still has a 30cm crawl space, which also ventilates the wall cavities towards the attic.)

You could then decide if UFH is worth the extra, but more like a luxury, as a couple radiators can warm up the rooms just fine.
A V thanked rinked
Isla Cherry
14 days ago
last modified: 13 days ago
I agree with Rinked, I would stick to radiators as it sounds like a horrendous amount of upheaval for a heating solution which might or might not be sufficient. In a new house UFH is a really efficient solution and it is designed to be so but to retrofit it especially with the suspended floor sounds like a gamble to me. If the insulation in the rest of the property is not brilliant then it might prove to be inadequate. We did UFH in a listed barn once and it was woefully ineffectual with insulation boards underneath the slab. It created a freezing expensive space..
A V thanked Isla Cherry
madeleine_brown8
13 days ago
We did it on our 1911 end of terrace suspended floor with a small concrete slab kitchen.

Like you we ummed and ahed and in the end went for it. It is wonderful having a gentle heat underfoot. Our house was freezing before (particularly the kitchen) and now we have tiles throughout and the heat is lovely. Also no radiators taking up wall space.

It is very disruptive so probably only worth it if you are say extending or doing ground works but if you are then yes, fill the void, insulate, have pipes in screed and enjoy one floor level throughout.

Avoid retrofit systems onto suspended trays (engineer here).

www.instagram.com/1911_renovation
A V thanked madeleine_brown8

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